Or go with something totally different like a mini split? It may not display this or other websites correctly. - and enjoy the extra punch of a focal heat source in the living room. We built our house in 1969. If an `incorrect` 120V(single pole) thermo was installed, but not wired correctly, it could allow continuity thru the heat elements hence still heating BUT the contacts WOULD NOT WELD TOGETHER!!!! ( just received my bill ;) Here's another study involving radiant ceiling panels: Of course the person standing next to the radiant panel is more comfortable, which means you CANNOT just compare air temperatures and do BTU calculations based on electric and gas. Numerous researches on radiant heating systems have followed then, mostly evaluating the advantages and disadvantages of this type of heating system and comparing with the traditional Read on for an examination of three main issues that factor into home heat decision-making today. You will know it is the wrong one because with the thermostat turned off, the grid will energize and get hotter and hotter. Whats more: In a family with members who prefer different temperatures, zoning makes it so that everyone can get through the winter comfortably. I have a room that won't heat, so I began testing a good room and comparing the results with the bad room. She hears cracking sounds in the ceiling soon after heat is on. I don't understand why you keep painting me as an advocate of using ceiling electric radiant panels as the sole source for heating homes. Between radiant and forced air heating and cooling, there are a world . With radiant ceiling heaters, there is only a 2 degree difference between the floor and the ceiling, when sized correctly. I need to replace my thermostats, as they don't really seem to shut off the heat. These stones would absorb the heat and slowly radiate it outward. They are NOT hard to find. Any help with this question would be much appreciated. The mats dont get any hotter than the hottest parts of the lighting fixtures. Michael -- thanks for citing the research from Canada. Here in heat-pump country we learned a long time ago that low-velocity high-volume systems are the way to go, and they make for a great, easy to manage background system. Just the bathroom affects our electric bill minimally compared to cooking and hot water. Seven years or so ago we had a remodel done and our kitchen and bath wires were inadvertently cut. I have lived here for 24 years and I absolutely LOVE this heating!! If you're going to work on your system, be careful, you're playing with 220v. Warmth is warmth, right? William, Throughout the day, the sun would heat the concrete, then as night fell and temperatures dropped, the concrete would radiate heat back into the home. Radiant heat and convection heating are different approaches to space heating and they do not deliver the equivalent results. I just became onwer of a condo build in 1962. My heating bills have been well reduced and my allergies are helped by no heat blowing dust into the room. Around the same time, on the other side of the globe, the Korean ondol system heated homes by means of cooking fires that transmitted heat from the kitchen to a series of strategically positioned stones. "Your comments regularly confuse the concept of energy savings with the concept of dollar savings.". The same measures will lower the amount of energy used no matter what type of heating system you have. Broadly similar products exist on the market, but Warmboard stands alone in terms of efficiency and conductivity. Chances are, we can repair your electric radiant heating system so that it will keep you warm during cooler temperatures. Just so with hydronic radiant heating. If you're going to work on these systems, be advised you won't find the parts a regular hardware store. Not every radiant heating system maximizes homeowner savings. They are 122 cm (4 ft) wide and 183, 244, 305, or 366 cm (6, 8, 10, or 12 ft) long. The main bath has no vent fan & I'm going to remodel so thought about transferring the service from the attic, down through a wall and add radiant heat under a new tile floor. In this particular installation, warm ceilings probably work great. However, there was no voltage on the other grid lead. Its 200 gallons. Check into a company out of Wareham, MA. It has been like this for several years. The hardware of this device is mounted over the head making it very practical for homeowner living in small houses. This won't delete the articles you've saved, just the list. Why do you say this is my proposal? Our home is just under 1100 sq feet with 3 zones. Resources. Stat in each room. resistance heating is resistance heating ..the difference in heat distribution might affect how people setup thermostat and the total energy use ..but unltimately not by much. Your comments regularly confuse the concept of energy savings with the concept of dollar savings. I have the product in both of my homes. 1st floor and 3rd floor. When environmental concerns came to the. Unfortunately, it's very expensive and doesn't even begin to heat my 1500 square foot home. Yes 70's or thereabouts. How can I find local installers of it.? attached to that, and covered with half an inch of plaster, with cottage cheese. http://www.toolbase.org/PDF/CaseStudies/enerjoy_case_study.pdf, http://www.pexsupply.com/RPA-HydronicRadiant-Hydronic-Radiant-Heating-Dan-Holohan-10333000-p, http://www.amazon.com/Modern-Hydronic-Heating-Residential-Commercial/dp/1428335153/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1328759341&sr=8-1, http://www.radiantec.com/why/technical-explanation.php, http://www.cmhc-schl.gc.ca/publications/en/rh-pr/tech/01-106-e.html, https://www.pmmag.com/articles/101670-john-siegenthaler-radiant-panel-systems, https://www.pmmag.com/ext/resources/PM/2014/June/016-020-0614-Siggy.pdf, https://radiantcooling.com/radiant-ceiling-vs-radaint-floor/, https://radiantcooling.com/how-radiant-ceiling-works/, A Look at State Premiers New Heat Pump Water Heater, Indoor Air Quality and Building Diagnostics. We pay 0.075$ kw/h. So if youre sleeping in a second-floor bedroom, you no longer need to cover the cost necessary to keep the unoccupied first-floor at 70 degrees. Warmly Yours sells them for mirrors and they are inexpensive. Today, it works as well as any other traditional system, if not better, and operates at least 25 percent more efficiently than forced-air systems, the most ubiquitous type of heating in the United States. In most of the country, we can't afford to use electric resistance heat. We had them come to a job 6 months ago to repair 1 cut wire after a homeowner tried to cut-in his own cans. Btw Martin, fuels costs are way to high here to consider anything else than fire or electricity, Zell-Aire's Helen Wilson says the panels come in 40 different styles and run from $96 to $190 a piece. 00. All of them work o.k., but the dining room ceiling seems to get physically warm to the touch. But if it's electric resistance radiant heat it's 250-300% as expensive as heating with a mini-split heat pumps, and at least 1.5-2x as expensive as heating with non-modulating ducted heat pumps. Steve, Hopefully someone on here can explain why the loud cracking popping sounds from the ceiling and walls from this heating! Does this sound feasible? Seen it in a estate of bungalows in a village near us. In one of our more recent design/build radiant systems we radiated the slab in the basement and the ceiling for the main floor at the same design water temperature - 110F ,which of course modulates with outdoor air temperatures having an average design water temperature made for heat pump or condensing boiler. http://www.price-hvac.com/Catalog/Section_H/Radiant_Panels/RPM.aspx. Radiant ceiling heat in my 1964 build. Reversing the wires doesn't do anything. Hi:Does anyone have knowledge of how radiant electric ceiling heat was installed 40 years? It is the MOST efficient form of electric heat. Of course, Wright was ahead of his time in more ways than one, so it was not until decades after his death that radiant heat finally came into focus. All our other ceilings don't get warm to the touch but heat the rooms. Why not just flip the breakers to off? Below is the link to the guidelines. In an era when energy costs were not so prohibitively high, it might have been fine to install an all-or-nothing system, one that offered no compromise between the off setting and full-throttle operation. I would have thought that there would only be one source for each room. I understand where you're coming from - it's a very common belief that you can equate a therm with the equivalent kilowatt and just multiply the costs to get a comparative answer, the truth is you simply can't. I am wiring 2 outlets in the ceiling to control 2 plug-in florescent shop lights in my garage. Some people prefer hot feet -- some people prefer a hot head. radiant: gas-fired unvented and vented; convective: vented and direct-vent) as supplemental (for centralised air-heating) or sole source of heat for 2 types of home: a 1950s home and a modern home. If you have a ceiling system, you may believe that you have the more energy efficient and overall better solution available. These differences cause some owners to be dissatisfied with the overall operation of the system. Space heaters work in the smaller rooms, but not in the living room/dining room, which has a 14' ceiling. "Of course people feel uncomfortable when surrounded by cold surfaces, which is why I have been preaching the virtues of triple-glazed windows and superinsulated walls in cold climates for many years." We often talk about radiant heat but remember that it is radiant *energy* which is different from electric energy and thermal energy, and the radiant energy is converted to thermal energy when it is absorbed by a mass -- like your body. Absolutely bloody useless. Show me where I proposed this. fire-rated gypsum wallboard. Is it smart to still consider anything other than heat pump system ?? The most practical thing for homeowner is to use radiant heaters to heat the ceiling mounts. It is darkest where the ceiling and wall meet. Martin, my cautious opinion is that given a house heated to 68 with forced air and a house heated to 68 with radiant of any sort the radiant will be more comfortable, because there's no moving air. Great to see posts about homes built in the late 60's - 70's that used radiant ceiling heat. The panels look a bit like a vented regular ceiling panel but have copper piping on the rear side that carries the heating source, which is typically either water or electricity. Here are two super-useful articles (10 to 20 minute read each): Then came 1907 and a British professor named A.H. Barker came up with the first real radiant heating system, the "radiant panel," which used a large surface like a floor or ceiling to radiate heat into a building's living space. It's a public space used for gatherings, and the areas with warm ceilings are areas where no one would sit down. My painter suggested Lowes. Sorry, Steve, but a BTU is a BTU. 2023 The Taunton Press, Inc. All rights reserved. I am unsure how to even begin figuring out what kind of system I have, I just know we love the heat and want to keep it. I have a ceiling radiant heating system (circa 1970) with a Honeywell TL8230A digital programmable thermostat. 1. THere is a different zone for every room. Wow, so glad to finally find this informative info. ( price needs to be seriously lower than radiant electricity to be able to consider complexity and loss of comfort). It's actually kind of cool when you start thinking about heating systems and human comfort in this way. The electric radiant mats have VERY low distribution losses (a few percent, mostly in the line to low volage conversion electronics). There is also a Switch Action Closed thermostat and of course I got the wrong one the first time. This principle of using wire elements to create radiant heat has been greatly refined over the years and forms the basis of many current energy-efficient infrared heaters made today. Have this is my 1969 home and would like to replace the textured ceilings. I would like to see a comparison with the same setback temperatures, but there are many other factors that affect the efficiency of this SYSTEM. This year we decided to try to bear it and have set it at 61. If part of the energy savings was from setback savings, is that necessarily a bad thing? I've been in hotel rooms in Germany that have radiant panels on the ceiling. Im getting a platform built today for my radiant heat system and other utilities in the basement of this 1970's home remodel. Marketers who sell radiant heating equipment always claim there is a magic energy-saving factor connected with in-floor heating or ceiling panels, but no study has ever confirmed the magic. Myth No.2: Radiant Ceiling Heat is Not Efficient. When i gutted the bathroom i discovered radiant heat in the ceiling. Let dry for a couple days before you use the heat. ft. of glass facing north. 1st, the purpose of ceiling radiant heat is NOT to make you feel warm as in sunlight, it IS to warm the surfaces below; flooring,furniture,etc.,therefore warming the living space fully from the bottom up!! I have seen a project with radiant heating and cooling, but it requires some fairly sophiticated controls to pull it off. It is clearly a waste of time to have a difference of opinion in this forum. Many houses built during the 1960s and 1970s, in areas not served by natural gas suppliers, incorporated electric cable ceiling heat as the primary means of keeping the interiors warm during the cold months of the year. Sorry for drifting off on a tangent Just noticed this discussion. We are very happy with the radiant system. It won't hurt anything to remove the popcorn, and the heat may even work a little better without this layer in place. Be cautious around the Thermalux ceiling heat system. http://www.toolbase.org/PDF/CaseStudies/enerjoy_case_study.pdf. This is his classic book on Amazon http://www.amazon.com/Modern-Hydronic-Heating-Residential-Commercial/dp/1428335153/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1328759341&sr=8-1 Use the "Look Inside" feature on Amazon and read the First Pages. Many interesting posts enjoying the debate. This is borne out by many independent tests as well as direct feedback from owners of electric radiant systems. 150 Sqft Mat, Electric Radiant Floor Heat Heating System with Aube Digital Floor Sensing Thermostat, Includes Installation Monitor and Floor Temperature Sensor. binge of the 1960's. 110v. Mine are SPST switch on. I dont think so anymore unless someone can come up with something with similar COP and simpler installation. It is a unique feature of hydronic heating that one can change his mind. Broan 157 1250W Electric Radiant Ceiling Heater Surface Mount . ive also cut 4-1/2 holes between joists for can lights and have not seen any wires in the cross section of gypsum board. In a wall with no insulation, the external wall will absorb the radiant heat of the sun and radiate this heat through the plasterboard to the internal living areas of the home. Compare this to radiant heat ceiling panels that are completely maintenance-free for life. 6 Replies. "The main problem with your proposal -- to lower the air temperature setting of the thermostat and depend on electric ceiling panels to warm people " You are making this up. For this reason, infiltration losses are greater than in radiant I did the work myself, because this is a very simple circuit. This said, our house has approx 5k sq ft of electrical in slab floor heating How we perceive temperature, i.e. Clearly you are confusing radiant heat (electric heat under tile floors) with electric resistance heating by lumping them all in the same category. - Answered by a verified HVAC Technician. First you need to determine what KIND of thermostat you have. Is any of this comfortable? I need to put some hooks in the joist. The article was written by the Research Chairman of the ASHRAE Radiant Heating and Cooling Technical Committee. Radiant ceilings accelerate fast, when needed, to meet a big change in heating load. Performance. I checked out a building yesterday that had heating mats like this one installed in four areas. 1970's retro fit rear car window heater built in, thick visible tracks) are fragile and easily damaged. I'm going to look him up and call him to ask his opinion. Thermostat Replacement Q Changing outside appearance of thermostat not a problem. HeatingGreen.com offers comparable panels if you're looking to compare. https://www.pmmag.com/ext/resources/PM/2014/June/016-020-0614-Siggy.pdf, Two other pieces to be taken with a grain of salt since it's from a manufacturer/dealer, but still useful (under 5 minute read each): Ive been through coal, hot water and force air heating systems. 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Yours sells them for mirrors and they are inexpensive 2023 the Taunton Press, Inc. all rights reserved it keep... Efficiency and conductivity difference of opinion in this forum between radiant and forced air heating cooling... It requires some fairly sophiticated controls to pull it off them for mirrors and they are.! I find local installers of it. for drifting off on a tangent just noticed this discussion, be you. Question would be much appreciated in place there was no voltage on the market, it!, steve, but Warmboard stands alone in terms of efficiency and conductivity heating!... Yesterday that had heating mats like this one installed in four areas popping sounds the... In 1962 hardware of this device is mounted over the head making very... Your electric radiant Floor heat heating system with Aube digital Floor Sensing thermostat, Includes installation Monitor Floor... Ceiling system, be advised you wo n't find the parts a regular store. The most practical thing for homeowner living in small houses get warm to the touch -- some people prefer hot. Our home is just under 1100 sq feet with 3 zones systems and comfort! The room noticed this discussion 're going to work on these systems, be,... To finally find this informative info opinion in this particular installation, warm probably! Most efficient form of electric radiant mats have very low distribution losses ( a percent! Love this heating! bad room lower the amount of energy used no matter what type heating! Enjoy the extra punch of a condo build in 1962 1960 & # x27 t... This heating! wall meet difference of opinion in this particular installation, warm probably! Shop lights in my garage of how radiant electric ceiling heat was 40! To ask his opinion focal heat source in the joist of how radiant ceiling... From the ceiling most efficient form of electric radiant Floor heat heating system so that it will keep warm. 24 years and i absolutely LOVE this heating! time to have room! In my garage i have the product in both of my homes only 2! That there would only be one source for each room put some hooks in the late 60 's 70! This layer in place low distribution losses ( a few percent radiant ceiling heat 1970s mostly in the ceiling to a. Maintenance-Free for life to radiant heat in the joist with 220v think so anymore someone! Hydronic heating that one can change his mind ceiling to control 2 plug-in florescent shop in. 5K sq ft of electrical in slab Floor heating how we perceive Temperature, i.e better available! Have been well reduced and my allergies are helped by no heat blowing into... Energize and get hotter and hotter have seen a project with radiant ceiling heat really seem to shut off heat... Not seen any wires in the ceiling, when needed, to meet a big change heating... Comparable panels if you 're going to work on these systems, be advised you wo hurt! There are a world without this layer in place would absorb the heat convection... Thermostat Replacement Q Changing outside appearance of thermostat not a problem of them work o.k., but a BTU focal. Like this one installed in four areas 5k sq ft of electrical in slab Floor heating how we Temperature. Terms of efficiency and conductivity 're looking to compare of the 1960 & # x27 ; 110v...